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Some depressing news this afternoon. Our shift to Facebook-based commenting on our online stories and features has been pushed back to Thursday. Apparently it’s a design issue. It’s not a biggie. At the moment, there is still plenty of work being done to our redesigned www.thetimesnews.com.
It’s still coming, though.
So far response to our new website design has been very positive. Eric Townsend, of the Elon University News Bureau told me via Twitter “Nice design of the website. Much more user friendly! Please pass along my compliments to all involved.” Jamie Freeze via Facebook called it a “Nice fresh look.” Marge Honeycutt Mago also on Facebook also had nice things to say about our different look and especially liked the rotating photo/news feature that dominates the top of the page. She asked if Accent stories — our features could be displayed more prominently. We will do so. In fact, we plan to rotate a lifestyle feature in our rotating function when available.
Here are some other comments I received by email about my recent column on anonymous commenting on websites and our intent to eliminate or diminish those through our new Facebook-based commenting tool. It won’t eliminate all posts that stray over the line, but it will end most — That’s been the case at other Freedom Communications, Inc. newspapers.
Most of the mail I’ve received has endorsed this effort.
Here’s the feedback.
Hi Madison,
I loved your article. There have been several times I’ve wanted to send in something to the Letter to the Editor, bur never did. … I just decided I was better off not submitting anything! I wish more people thought like I do. Keep on writing good articles,
Martha Mobley
Kudos on your decision concerning the third party id’s for online commentaries. Honestly, I believe many have quit using online simply because of the number of anonymous trolls and trash talkers. While I have a third party id I have repeatedly identified myself, particularly in defense of my own submissions to the editors page, and would have no problem doing so for the privilege of discussions on the Times site. The online age has made it entirely too easy for cowards and trolls to avoid the idea that words like actions have consequences, so put up or shut up.
Lance Key
Hello Madison — I really did appreciate your column “A Program for Commenters Anonymous” from Oct 2. I have been just astonished by the mean-spiritedness of comments about our Sister City relationship with Mexico. I think we have done a lot; the chronology of our achievements is out there on website [ http://www.sistercities-burlington.org ]www.sistercities-burlington.org. … We deliberately chose our sister city to be in Mexico to promote goodwill with the Latino community in Alamance County. I am overwhelmed and now exhausted by the negative response.
Well, if the people have to own up to the responsibility of posting their replies with their name on Facebook, I suppose that will tone it down a notch. And maybe another generation from now, they will come to empathize with the plight of those who are less fortunate than themselves.
Beth Powell
Your column about anonymous comments was superbly written, Madison. One of the best pieces you’ve ever done, regardless of the subject matter. And congratulations on your new system.
As the great Gene Weingarten recently wrote, allowing anonymous comments on a well-researched, skillfully written news story is like ordering a steak and “getting a side order of maggots.’
Lee Barnes
The comments should not be eliminated through facebook. Require the bloggers to use a real name that is verified. You could verify the name as being real in the same manner as you do the names in the letters to the editor. In my opinion, using facebook will almost eliminate the comments.
BTW, the rest of the new look is great!!!
Joe A. Tickle
On a good note, congratulations on your new format. Long overdue. Much better layout.
On a bad note however, I do not have a Facebook account and find a requirement of one for comment on stories on your site to be discriminatory.
I am not some old Hoot. I am in the I/T business with a background in Information Security. I find Facebook to be poor in its handling of a person’s information and refuse to get in on the madness. I submit many of my peers also refuse to fall prey to Facebook. You may want to review your stance on this.
If major networks news stories allow comments, I am sure the Times-News will have nowhere near the work of policing their own little small town postings.
Janice Buck
I want to thank all who are taking the time to write to us about our site and any future plans for it. I responded to most by telling them that the design of www.thetimesnews.com remains a work in progress. We have a few tweaks to make that will hopefully make our site even easier to navigate. And we’ll evaluate the online comments during the process as well.
And when the new system goes into place, we’ll probably monitor things pretty closely. There are workarounds for those willing to find them. We plan to work with Facebook to ban abusers pretty quickly.
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This is a total mistake. I have learned much about Alamance County from the post from County employees and others who, under your new system will not be able to tell what they know, for fear of reprisal.
I understand your feelings Eddie and I do agree that it had some uses. But it had far too many abuses. Innocent people do not deserve to be libeled by anonymous stone-throwers. And I personally don’t want my name associated with the hatred, racism and other mental maladies that often took root in the anonymous comments. Let’s see how things go.
I agree with Eddie. This is a mistake. The problem you have is not with anonymous commenters – it’s with a lack of moderation and rules enforcement on the part of your newspaper. If your staff would enforce rules, then the comments would be much more pleasant.
Madison,
I find it interesting that one of the messages here is from an anonymous commenter, who couldn’t put his/her real name down. Facebook, while not a shining example of security, has enough security provisions in place that you can lock down your information. I do it, and it’s not that hard. It should be noted that many media outlets use Facebook commenting as well, and there haven’t been issues associated with it that I’ve heard of. The ones who want to comment anonymously can still send in tips that way, now you just have to own what you say in the comments. Personally, I think that’s a good thing.
I would agree that better moderation would help, which is part of the system we’re going to now. The former system meant going to a third party website with unweildy access. Also, it was impossible for anyone to monitor the community blogs. We simply don’t have the staff to do it 24 hours a day. People post at all hours in dozens or even hundreds of stories. The rules will be better enforced now, hopefully. But having a better mannered pool of commenters would also be ideal.
Have to agree with TenthDoctor. Many of the non-anonymous commenters are just as bad, if not worse, at slinging around hatred, racism, and other mental maladies. If anything, I expect this change will result in more personal attacks on other users of the web site. Some of the current posters almost seem to be licking their chops at the prospect of finding out who other commenters are. And what is the purpose of that interest if not to engage in shooting the messenger?
won’t argue about some of the non-anonymous posters. But this system will make it easier to ban them, too.
“madisontaylor says:
October 12, 2011 at 7:05 am
won’t argue about some of the non-anonymous posters. But this system will make it easier to ban them, too.”
I fully expect my ids to be banned, and have several ready, just in case.
Many of the Facebook-based systems I’ve seen allow users to select a username. You should look into that, Madison.
True, but they have to give their real name to Facebook at some point. Also, because we have direct administrative access, we can ban users immediately. Also, users to veer far out of bounds can be banned from Facebook.
Madison,
Just as a lark, I created a fake face book accounts. All you need is an email address. Between google, yahoo, hotmail, and others, email accounts are easy to come by.
It is easy to do.
I don’t have any intention of really messing with you, but someone will.
We know it. We plan to kill anything pretty quick — as long as the system works as advertised.
Still delayed?
Madison,
Since y’all plan to “kill anything” quickly – will you be publishing any guidelines about what will constitute “anything”? Especially since the T-N’s moderation will impact users off of the T-N site (i.e. their FB accounts)?
Until about 5 or so I’m told. Nothing is on schedule in America anymore.
I will say that I told the moderator to tolerate very little at the start because I suspect people will be pushing us to our limit. We do want to foster solid and spirited debate. Foul or obscene language will not be tolerated at all. Racial epithets are forbidden. I’m not in much of a mood to put up with racism. In cases of bullying by users the lines won’t be so clear. People can and should disagree, but remember to be decently mannered about it. And name calling? Please stay away from it. This will be a learning process for all, including ourselves. I would tell commenters to err on the side of caution at the start.
That said, comments will be pretty quickly deleted but only repeat offenders will be barred. People who use the names of others known in the community as fake names will be banned immediately as such issues become known to us.
Believe me, I want people to feel free to comment. But I want it to be a common area where all feel free to express themelves without being verbally berated or abused.. People who keep this in mind should do fine.
I want to verbally abuse people, this makes me sad!:-(
Also, the time stamp is wrong, or my clock is really off….
Blogs are set on California time. I have no idea why.
I see the new system is up and running. Will be interesting to see how things pan out. Too bad all the old posts and the forum have been lost in the process. While much of it may not have been a major loss, there was still some good stuff in there.
Looks like the new system does not work for me. I can see my posts, but it does not appear anyone else can. Maybe the part about the system “…will not give anyone access to your Facebook information or the ability to see what is on your profile wall if your account is private.” is not entirely accurate since my FB account is private? And that in turn is preventing my posts from showing up for others?
Silence Dogood says:
Looks like the new system does not work for me. I can see my posts, but it does not appear anyone else can. Maybe the part about the system “…will not give anyone access to your Facebook information or the ability to see what is on your profile wall if your account is private.” is not entirely accurate since my FB account is private? And that in turn is preventing my posts from showing up for others?
Dogwood, I think they are using the wrong plug in, or it is not hooked to their system correctly.
The “log in” plug in would let you use your face book account to log in to your Times News account, but you would still have to be registered with the Times News site.
I am not familiar with this plug in, but it don’t appear to be giving the desired results. Neither would the log in plug in, as you could still use your old id.
Perhaps they will get a hack written to make it work, but someone needs to know PHP.
I don’t know Eddie. I think they have the plugin they want. It is the same one Freedom is using on their other sites.
I am able to see some posts from other users. Don’t know whether I’m seeing all posts from other users though. I just noticed though that a post by Craig Holt has disappeared from view as well (well, from my view).
I’ve had a couple friends check for me, and they are reporting that they cannot see the posts I’ve made.
meh, I’ll see if it sorts out over the next couple days. If nothing changes, I’ll just drop the site from places I visit. I have lots of other news sources and avenues for discussion.
Madison,
A very quick read of this plug in leads me to think it will only work on Face Book pages.
So sorry! (Not really)
Oh, and now that I’m using a different computer, my own posts are no longer visible. Maybe they’ve already moderated them into oblivion. If so, it is definitely based on something other than the content.
Or you could have the privacy settings wrong, or everyone will have to go public on the FB page,or…
Ain’t computers fun!
“Distribution: Comments are easily shared with friends or with people who like your Page on Facebook.”
Hope this ain’t right, or you got some work to undo!
Interesting. I just went and found the T-N Facebook page and Liked it. Now some of the comments (mine included) are showing up. Some may still be invisible (I can’t remember which ones I left now).
So was that the change that needed to be made? Or are they tweaking things in the background based on our feedback here? Or holding stuff in a moderation queue (that does not seem likely – just trying to brainstorm a bit)?
So we were posting at the same time Eddie. I guess you found that somewhere on the web describing how the Comment plugin is supposed to work? Seems consistent with what I just stumbled upon on my own.
Just checked with one of my friends. They still cannot see my comments. :shrug:
Found the dang login thing.. now it works. Still sucks.
Need login to be more visible.
I’m going to make sure our online content editor Joe Jurney sees all the comments here. Every new system has bugs. Hopefully we can work some of them out. There will be a learning curve for us all. Glad that you guys together seem to be figuring out how things operate. Thanks for your patience.
Thanks Madison. Hope y’all can get things working well for everyone.
fwiw, I’m looking at one article using two different browsers (Why doesn’t GOP want to put Americans back to work?).
Earlier, in browser #1 (Chrome) I could see the comment thread between Jamie and Trevor. When I went back to it recently, those comments had disappeared. There was a new comment showing up from Gregg. Trying it in browser #2 (IE 9), the original thread between Jamie and Trevor shows up sans the post from Gregg if I am not logged in to FB. As soon as I logged in to FB, it was back to just the post by Gregg. (And the post by Gregg indicates it was made 14 hours ago, but it is only just now showing up for me.) If I log out of FB, it is back to the Jamie/Trevor thread with no Gregg.
In browser #2, I also note that I am getting a warning about unsecured content and the FB plugin continues to spin indefinitely (and is kind of cutting off the content of the frame). If I tell the browser to go ahead and show the unsecured content, I can’t see any difference on the page other than the FB plugin goes ahead and finishes loading.
We’re having some of the same difficulties. We have notified corporate about it. The puzzling one is the comments that rae there, then gone and then return.